Willu's Suggestion work thread

Ideas he's actually considering implementing:

Ideas he's considered and rejected with reasoning:
Tentacle Orgy- No
Ideas he needs to get off his lazy butt and implement:

Consume/Burn Body ability
Ideas he's now implemented and what patch:

BURY THE BODIES ALREADY

THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GOGGLES

Reefer, if you weren't aware and if I understand correctly, burying would be eliminated as a useful feature by the consume system.

The Thing, while in Thing form, may consume a body for health or something. Thus, it acts as a creatable medkit for the Thing.

The marines obviously don't want the Thing to be able to heal, so they want to either A) Hide the bodies which makes it so thing OR OTHER MARINES can't find it, B) Carry the bodies WHICH MEANS DOUBLE MEDKIT IF THAT MARINE DIES, or C) Burn it. Burning would be the replacement for burying. You could use a molotov to burn bodies, thus allowing for marines to dispose of the only way for the Thing to heal itself besides natural regeneration.

Blah blah blah blah = burying is useless

Also burning would provide a morale bonus to the nearby marines

speaking of morale, could we take this in the direction of the XBOX version where you can perform a blood serum test on yourself or other marines (would be an EXTREAMLY rare item possibly only one on random spawn)

item would also encourage not camping- since it would be a random spawn item, we could have groups always on the move looking for an item that hasn't spawned

Maybe probably not though

Do you want the source map willu? I'm taking a pretty long break.

That would be nice

LOL vic ~never~ does any work.

this break made me lol IRL. make sure you take credit for al of will's work when you get back

well to be fair vic does a better job of balancing the game than i do. Also if vic would ever upload the map that might be a feasible accusation, but he never does.

willuwontu wrote:Also burning would provide a morale bonus to the nearby marines

Marines get to burn dead bodies? To prevent the thing from healing?

mind = blown

Mind blown in a good way or a bad way? :p

Probe wrote:Mind blown in a good way or a bad way? :p

Minds blowing up are a pretty bad thing, but I meant it in a good way. .-.

Uploaded the source file to Dropbox.

Vicboy wrote:Uploaded the source file to Dropbox.

Reefer makes things happen

Just for the record, i am working on the map, I've got the abilities done, and i am working on the visuals now.

willuwontu wrote:Just for the record, i am working on the map, I've got the abilities done, and i am working on the visuals now.

You are a fantastic cookie. :>

Have you guys considered releasing terrain so that people like me can potentially fix some retarded issues on maps like sahara. I've still got a bunch of ideas to make it a better map in general but there's not really much I can do about it.

I just want to screw around with it and see if something could make it better.

PS. Put some damned snowfall on aquilon. You don't freeze/lose energy on Baguio but do on Aquilon. Make there be a difference.

PSS. Anyone else feel like Aquilon could use some work too? So much empty space that people will never use in the bottom left. I have a couple ideas on how to rework that.

Take the LSD for more visuals willu!

i think we tried snowfall once. everyone hated it

or maybe I'm thinking of sand....

anyways~ the ground can be covered in snow at 32* and -40*! <3science !

How could you "Hate the snowfall?" Too much of it? Someone probably made tons. I just want a sprinkle. Its stupid the way it is, with so much snow but so little snow.

Remember to take note of the changes you make in the source, no matter how small.

Have you done anything so far?

EDIT:

Wait a minute, what are we exactly doing for the bodies? Bury? Burn? Consume?

Vicboy wrote:Remember to take note of the changes you make in the source, no matter how small.

Have you done anything so far?

EDIT:

Wait a minute, what are we exactly doing for the bodies? Bury? Burn? Consume?

You can burn a body over 3 secs at the cost of 10 gas, a molotov or a grenade, to gain a morale bonus which slows the marines (slightly), but they deal more damage to thing (slightly), flamethrower guy gets no buff.

Thing can consume bodies over 5 secs to heal 30% of its health, both are interrupted by damage. Also thing no longer gets help from medkit.

Edit:
Taking damage disables the ability for 3 secs.

I don't understand this morale boost. So it slows him down but gives him bonus damage? Sounds like a great way to TK better.

Just some suggestions:

Corpses can be used to heal Thing.
Corpses can be buried by Marines to hide it, but also Thing in Marine form, if it wants to have a corpse stash.
Corpses can be burnt by molotovs and Flamethrowers only.
Burnt corpses are darkened corpses with fire attached to it (origin).

Vicboy wrote:I don't understand this morale boost. So it slows him down but gives him bonus damage? Sounds like a great way to TK better.

Just some suggestions:

Corpses can be used to heal Thing.
Corpses can be buried by Marines to hide it, but also Thing in Marine form, if it wants to have a corpse stash.
Corpses can be burnt by molotovs and Flamethrowers only.
Burnt corpses are darkened corpses with fire attached to it (origin).

Bonus damage to thing only.

I'm confused about the Burying. Burning is the whole concept of 'hiding' the bodies from the Thing. Why would bury need to be added? If it is, it is pointless for burning to exist because it requires an item as opposed to just burying it. AND HOW THE FUCK ARE MARINES BURYING SOMEONE IN A SPACE STATION.

Burying just seems like a stupid idea if burning is a thing.

Marines have a choice: Burning the bodies

DO:                                                          
Stops Thing from healing                                    
You lose a molo or fuel                                      
Marine's won't be able to identify dead marine      
Nearby Marine's get morale boost (Dmg)      

DON'T
Thing can heal
You have more items to kill it with    
 Marine's can see that this person is dead
Marine's have no boost

That's what makes this dynamic. You give a little, you take a little. Does stopping the Thing from healing justify having future marines not seeing the body? That's the choice you have to make.
Though the way the game is currently played out with camping and all, a good molotov will always be worth it for me instead of burning the body. Once we lay the foundation down here, we need to balance it.

Pro players won't be burning bodies unless they have too many items I would think, in which case you put them on the ground to block Thing's throw. IDK. Basically, the whole point of this disjointed post is to point out burying does absolutely nothing for anyone and that anything it can do, burning can do better.

Besides having a stupid ability to 'search' for buried bodies that everyone will spam 24/7 hoping to find one.

willuwontu wrote:

Vicboy wrote:I don't understand this morale boost. So it slows him down but gives him bonus damage? Sounds like a great way to TK better.

Just some suggestions:

Corpses can be used to heal Thing.
Corpses can be buried by Marines to hide it, but also Thing in Marine form, if it wants to have a corpse stash.
Corpses can be burnt by molotovs and Flamethrowers only.
Burnt corpses are darkened corpses with fire attached to it (origin).

Bonus damage to thing only.

Why only damage to Thing? I don't know about you, but if some random idiot killed my friend for no reason I would love a dmg boost to kill that bastard after giving my friend a proper end.

you would bury the body so the thing cannot regain 30% of its health. derp

I think that the marines should get a morale reduction, because having to burn your fellow marine would fucking suck.
Also, thing should still be able to use a medkit infront of everyone. I like how he can't if others aren't around. That adds a new difficulty but not being able to use a medkit at all, just because you may or may not be able to consume a body, I think we should keep the medkit in.
Also, by the time using a medkit is more prudent, the things HP regen is already super low. If he can find one and manage to get around marines long enough to use it, all the power to him.

Probe wrote:
Why only damage to Thing? I don't know about you, but if some random idiot killed my friend for no reason I would love a dmg boost to kill that bastard after giving my friend a proper end.

Because otherwise tkers will use it to their advantage

Proteo wrote:I think that the marines should get a morale reduction, because having to burn your fellow marine would fucking suck.
Also, thing should still be able to use a medkit infront of everyone. I like how he can't if others aren't around. That adds a new difficulty but not being able to use a medkit at all, just because you may or may not be able to consume a body, I think we should keep the medkit in.
Also, by the time using a medkit is more prudent, the things HP regen is already super low. If he can find one and manage to get around marines long enough to use it, all the power to him.

Thing can use medkits, just won't heal faster.

Progress report, willu?

EDIT:

Maybe we should make a Development Thread to discuss the actual development of the game. A public thread that they can contribute in, just as if it were open source. (lol)

Still working on the bury ability, got sidetracked for a bit with schoolwork. I think i've got it figured out, but we'll see.

willuwontu wrote:Still working on the bury ability, got sidetracked for a bit with schoolwork. I think i've got it figured out, but we'll see.

I tried doing the Bury ability too, mind you. Using that Burrowed state, but it didn't work out for some reason...

PS, added an edit in my previous post.

Yah, with the morale boost its not ideal but there is not really a way to work around it efficiently, so I'm all for the morale boost being vs. Thing alone. We really don't need to promote tk ._.
----------------------------
But the medkits kind of bug me. Here's my What-if:

What if medkits stay the way they are right now, but with a twist. While out of marines' sight you cannot use a medkit (as usual). However, instead of using a medkit up without getting a health gain when in a group, what if being healed by a medkit meant your control went down like 85%?

Simplified: Cannot use medkit while out of sight of marines or else you lose 100% control (morph). If around marines, lose 80% control. Medkits function normally, healing you if used while within a group.

Why?

Because you please people who want to use medkits within groups, while still pleasing people who want to use medkits as testers. Everyone wins. The Thing has enough time to possibly heal and then leave, but the marines are giving a method of determining who it is. Win - Win. (Unless I overlooked something)

Medkits shouldn't be allowed to be used away from marines because the whole fucking point of consume is to A) Scale the game B) Replace Medkits for Thing

Elaboration: A) The more players in the game, the more bodies meaning more health for Thing. Less players, less medkits = Scaled game. B) Thing gets medkits without just wasting all of the marines' medkits and marines can now use those extra medkits to test.

BAM! :p
-------------------------------------
In response to Reefer, burning the body is supposed to replace burying. Its essentially the same thing only does a bit more and is cooler.

willuwontu wrote:Still working on the bury ability, got sidetracked for a bit with schoolwork. I think i've got it figured out, but we'll see.

Wait wtf? Srry some posts didn't show up for me before I posted my last post on this thread.

Why the fuck burying? Burying is the same thing as burning.

Burning: You burn the body AKA hiding both its identity as a dead player, and preventing Thing from using it to consume/heal. You also get a bonus morale boost.
Burying: You hide the body AKA hiding both its identity as a dead player, and preventing Thing from using it to consume/heal.

THE WORDS ARE EVEN SIMILAR - burYing - burNing

Like wtf? What is even the point of burning then? You mise well just remove burning and put in an ability to exchange a molotov/ flamethrower fuel for temporary damage buff. Because thats the only difference between them.

Too similar. One or the other because they serve the same purpose in the game. Burning is not only cooler, but is more dynamic AND YOU CAN'T FUCKING 'BURY' SOMEONE IN A SPACE STATION. HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN.

So you don't want medkit to be a blood test kit? Willu, once you've implemented the consume thing, you can make medkit auto transform Thing, no matter if Marines are in sight.

EDIT: Burying is a good alternative if you don't have fire.

I think the blood test idea is good, but I don't think it should be a definite. The moment you use a medkit on someone, they shouldn't immediately turn, they should get a warning. That warning is your control meter going down 80% immediately out of nowhere. You won't immediately turn, but you soon will.

Essentially, using a medkit on the thing WILL BE A TESTER within this instance, because 20% of control isn't that much. You will turn soon. So the Thing, while being healed for a couple seconds, will soon morph into the Thing when his control runs out. It is a tester with an escape avenue for the Thing. You can still use medkits, but you better not be planning on being within the group forever because you are going to turn sooner or later.

Edit: Who says you should always have a way to get rid of a body? You're trapped with an alien monster. Don't have fire? Sorry, life isn't fair.
Who the fuck would ever burn a body if you could save your molotov and do it a different way? Burying is the same thing as burning but burning takes fire. Fuck that.
And noone has explained how you bury someone on a space station.

Probe wrote:

Marines have a choice: Burning the bodies

DO:                                                          
Stops Thing from healing                                    
You lose a molo or fuel                                      
Marine's won't be able to identify dead marine      
Nearby Marine's get morale boost (Dmg)      

DON'T
Thing can heal
You have more items to kill it with    
Marine's can see that this person is dead
Marine's have no boost

That's burning. Here's Burying:

DO:
Stops Thing from healing
Marine's won't be able to identify dead marines

DON'T:
Allows Thing to heal
Marine's can see that this person is dead

Try to tell me that burying is more dynamic.

Holy fyck, from now on, we'll call it conceal.

So you're throwing out burning? There's no reason to have both. They are literally the same thing, only one takes items in exchange for giving a small buff.

Also, I think I'm just in a pissy mood today :p cuz I'm shitting all over your points system atm. Just you wait until I finish posting this long ass thread of full caps.

"Holy fyck, from now on, we'll call it conceal."
Holy fuck indeed, vicboy. Holy fuck indeed.

Besides Probe doing his usual (spot-on) impression of a bitch, this'll be interesting and make it more useful for thing to actively want to kill marines vs. looking around for medkits. Along that same line, some mechanic has to change to make the marines more susceptible to splitting up. Very few thing players can win against a set of 5 to 7 marines that never splits up, without a lot of nades or a lot of luck in the form of stupidity in the marine group.

zakhennahr2 wrote:"Holy fyck, from now on, we'll call it conceal."
Holy fuck indeed, vicboy. Holy fuck indeed.

Besides Probe doing his usual (spot-on) impression of a bitch, this'll be interesting and make it more useful for thing to actively want to kill marines vs. looking around for medkits. Along that same line, some mechanic has to change to make the marines more susceptible to splitting up. Very few thing players can win against a set of 5 to 7 marines that never splits up, without a lot of nades or a lot of luck in the form of stupidity in the marine group.

Only about 3 can win in that situation. Yoall, Pandapower, and Reefer.
And it's because they have the mind fuck game on point

zakhennahr2 wrote:"Holy fyck, from now on, we'll call it conceal."
Holy fuck indeed, vicboy. Holy fuck indeed.

Besides Probe doing his usual (spot-on) impression of a bitch, this'll be interesting and make it more useful for thing to actively want to kill marines vs. looking around for medkits. Along that same line, some mechanic has to change to make the marines more susceptible to splitting up. Very few thing players can win against a set of 5 to 7 marines that never splits up, without a lot of nades or a lot of luck in the form of stupidity in the marine group.

5 marines? That implies that there is at least 1 other marine dead (assuming you started the game with minimum amount of players to save stats). With the new consume ability soon to be added (like if it happens), marines have three outcomes here: A) They collected all the bodies and are holding them (Worst case scenario for thing) B) They have some (Thing can heal still, middle scenario) or C) Marines have none and have two choices. The first choice is to go collect and burn (not bury) bodies which means leaving the camping spot and potentially splitting up. The second choice is to not look for bodies and die because the Thing has many medkits (bodies) to work with. So unless the bodies have been collected by the marines beforehand, camping isn't really an option. Unless, you know, your a pro with nades in which case it doesnt actually matter. 

At least that's theory crafting. Obviously probably not THAT accurate but gives an idea of the situation. There's always the situation in which Thing has already used all the bodies or they have been burned etc. But theoretically camping should take a hit because you aren't finding bodies anymore.

I wonder, would it be beneficial for the Thing to be able to see where dead bodies are on the map? At least the ones he killed? Perhaps you can only see the bodies when you are low health and they are a red ping on the minimap or something? Just seems stupid that if Thing is low health and a bunch of marines are camping that he has to wander around the map searching for it.

I have no idea what the point of this post is anymore. I think the purpose got lost in like the first paragraph. xD

Suggestions to self:

Make the thing's unburrow have the same knockup effect as burrow charge (maybe make burrow charges unburrow actually stun instead of just slowing?)

Give the buildings minimap icon and tooltips so players know which building is which on the minimap instead of guessing.

building logos on mini map would encourage camping. NO